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Plato: Republic · 8 of 13 · tr. Benjamin Jowett

Section 1h

Yes, but not in a satisfactory manner; you frightened us by interposing objections, which certainly showed that the discussion would be long and difficult; and what still remains is the reverse of easy. What is there remaining? The question how the study of philosophy may be so ordered as not to be the ruin of the State: All great attempts are attended with risk; `hard is the good,' as men say. Still, he said, let the point be cleared up, and the enquiry will then be complete. I shall not be hindered, I said, by any want of will, but, if at all, by a want of power: my zeal you may see for yourselves; and please to remark in what I am about to say how boldly and unhesitatingly I declare that States should pursue philosophy, not as they do now, but in a different spirit. In what manner? At present, I said, the students of philosophy are quite young; beginning when they are hardly past childhood, they devote only the time saved from moneymaking and housekeeping to such pursuits; and even those of them who are reputed to have most of the philosophic spirit, when they come within sight of the great difficulty of the subject, I mean dialectic, take themselves off. In after life when invited by some one else, they may, perhaps, go and hear a lecture, and about this they make much ado, for philosophy is not considered by them to be their proper business: at last, when they grow old, in most cases they are extinguished more truly than Heracleitus' sun, inasmuch as they never light up again. But what ought to be their course? Just the opposite. In childhood and youth their study, and what philosophy they learn, should be suited to their tender years: during this period while they are growing up towards manhood, the chief and special care should be given to their bodies that they may have them to use in the service of philosophy; as life advances and the intellect begins to mature, let them increase the gymnastics of the soul; but when the strength of our citizens fails and is past civil and military duties, then let them range at will and engage in no serious labour, as we intend them to live happily here, and to crown this life with a similar happiness in another. How truly in earnest you are, Socrates! he said; I am sure of that; and yet most of your hearers, if I am not mistaken, are likely to be still more earnest in their opposition to you, and will never be convinced; Thrasymachus least of all. Do not make a quarrel, I said, between Thrasymachus and me, who have recently become friends, although, indeed, we were never enemies; for I shall go on striving to the utmost until I either convert him and other men, or do something which may profit them against the day when they live again, and hold the like discourse in another state of existence. You are speaking of a time which is not very near. Rather, I replied, of a time which is as nothing in comparison with eternity. Nevertheless, I do not wonder that the many refuse to believe; for they have never seen that of which we are now speaking realised; they have seen only a conventional imitation of philosophy, consisting of words artificially brought together, not like these of ours having a natural unity. But a human being who in word and work is perfectly moulded, as far as he can be, into the proportion and likeness of virtue--such a man ruling in a city which bears the same image, they have never yet seen, neither one nor many of them--do you think that they ever did? No indeed.
Themes
◆Childlike Innocenceanthropology

The infant or child as symbol of the unfallen, undivided spiritual state; return to primordial simplicity.

The passage advocates for students to begin philosophy in childhood and youth, prioritizing bodily health over intellectual labor until manhood.

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◆Cosmic Consciousnessanthropology

A state of awareness transcending ordinary human consciousness, often involving unity with the universe or higher dimensions.

The text describes a state of being where the soul is perfectly moulded into the likeness of virtue, implying a higher cosmic awareness.

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◆Divine Lighttheology

The uncreated luminous quality of the divine, sometimes experienced directly in mystical states; illumination as revelation.

The metaphor of extinguished suns and souls that never light up again contrasts with the ideal of a soul that is perfectly moulded into the likeness of virtue.

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◆Good Thought Word Deedethics

The Zoroastrian triad of right thought, right speech, and right action as the foundation of ethical life; truth-in-living.

The passage defines the ideal state as one where a human being is perfectly moulded into the proportion and likeness of virtue through word and work.

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◆Inner Lightanthropology

The divine spark or luminous quality residing within the human person, potentially recognisable through introspection.

The text contrasts extinguished suns with those that are perfectly moulded into the likeness of virtue, implying an internal luminous quality.

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◆Mechanical Humanityanthropology

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky's claim that ordinary human beings live in a state of waking sleep, reacting mechanically without unified will or consciousness, and that the spiritual path begins with recognising this condition.

The critique of citizens who extinguish themselves and never light up again aligns with the Gurdjieff/Ouspensky concept of ordinary humans living in a state of waking sleep.

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◆Microcosm Macrocosmcosmology

The human being as a small-scale image of the entire cosmos; the body, soul, and intellect mirroring the structure of the heavens and the divine — distinct from correspondence in that it makes the human the privileged mirror.

The passage explicitly links the human being's perfection to the city's image, stating that citizens should be moulded into the proportion and likeness of virtue for the state to bear the same image.

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◆Paradox As Teachingethics

Using apparent contradiction, reversal, or riddle to destabilise ordinary understanding and induce insight.

The text uses the paradoxical statement 'hard is the good' to illustrate the difficulty of philosophical pursuit.

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◆Renunciation Of Wealthethics

The spiritual danger of attachment to material possessions; wealth as a spiritual obstacle.

The passage emphasizes that students should devote only the time saved from moneymaking and housekeeping to philosophy, highlighting wealth as a spiritual obstacle.

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◆Return To Sourcesoteriology

The soul's journey back to its divine origin, reversing the fall into matter through stages of purification or illumination.

The mention of holding discourse in another state of existence suggests a journey back to a prior state of being.

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◆Self Knowledgesoteriology

The recognition of one's own true divine nature as the primary path to liberation; 'know thyself' as soteriology.

The passage emphasizes the need for citizens to increase the gymnastics of the soul and be perfectly moulded into the likeness of virtue through word and work.

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◆Soul Migrationcosmology

The transmigration of the soul across lives.

The text explicitly mentions that men will live again in another state of existence and hold the like discourse after death.

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◆Spiritual Ascentpraxis

A staged journey of the soul upward through heavenly realms or levels of being toward the divine source.

The passage describes a staged progression from childhood to manhood where citizens should increase the gymnastics of the soul.

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Related passages · 2 parallels
◆greek_mystery|The Golden Verses of Pythagoras|Section 12 (part 4)
“79 But this knowledge is the business of no other art and science than the Pythagorean philosophy alone, which in a transcendent degree honours disciplines before everything else. SYMBOL 15. Having departed from your house, turn not back;…”
Both passages emphasize the importance of philosophy and the pursuit of wisdom. They encourage a dedicated and lifelong commitment to philosophical inquiry, highlighting the need to separate oneself from mundane and corporeal concerns to focus on higher, intellectual pursuits.
◆western_esoteric|Tertium Organum (P.D. Ouspensky)|Chapter XXII (part 4)
“Both philosophies, that of the East and that of the West [says Müller] start from a common point, namely from the conviction that our ordinary knowledge is uncertain, if not altogether wrong. This revolt of the human mind against itself is…”
Both passages discuss the pursuit of philosophical knowledge and its transformative power. Plato's passage emphasizes the importance of philosophy in the life of individuals and the state, while the Vedanta passage discusses the nature of reality and the soul's connection to the divine essence, both highlighting the uncertainty of ordinary knowledge and the need for deeper understanding.