Plato: Republic · 13 of 13 · tr. Benjamin Jowett

Section 1m

Yes, I said, that they should begin by reproaching us with our ignorance of the good, and then presume our knowledge of it-- for the good they define to be knowledge of the good, just as if we understood them when they use the term `good'--this is of course ridiculous.

Most true, he said.

And those who make pleasure their good are in equal perplexity; for they are compelled to admit that there are bad pleasures as well as good.

Certainly.

And therefore to acknowledge that bad and good are the same?

True.

There can be no doubt about the numerous difficulties in which this question is involved.

There can be none.

Further, do we not see that many are willing to do or to have or to seem to be what is just and honourable without the reality; but no one is satisfied with the appearance of good--the reality is what they seek; in the case of the good, appearance is despised by every one.

Very true, he said.

Of this then, which every soul of man pursues and makes the end of all his actions, having a presentiment that there is such an end, and yet hesitating because neither knowing the nature nor having the same assurance of this as of other things, and therefore losing whatever good there is in other things,--of a principle such and so great as this ought the best men in our State, to whom everything is entrusted, to be in the darkness of ignorance?

Certainly not, he said.

I am sure, I said, that he who does not know now the beautiful and the just are likewise good will be but a sorry guardian of them; and I suspect that no one who is ignorant of the good will have a true knowledge of them.

That, he said, is a shrewd suspicion of yours.

And if we only have a guardian who has this knowledge our State will be perfectly ordered?

Of course, he replied; but I wish that you would tell me whether you conceive this supreme principle of the good to be knowledge or pleasure, or different from either.

Aye, I said, I knew all along that a fastidious gentleman like you would not be contented with the thoughts of other people about these matters.

True, Socrates; but I must say that one who like you has passed a lifetime in the study of philosophy should not be always repeating the opinions of others, and never telling his own.

Well, but has any one a right to say positively what he does not know?

Not, he said, with the assurance of positive certainty; he has no right to do that: but he may say what he thinks, as a matter of opinion.

And do you not know, I said, that all mere opinions are bad, and the best of them blind?

You would not deny that those who have any true notion without intelligence are only like blind men who feel their way along the road?

Very true.

And do you wish to behold what is blind and crooked and base, when others will tell you of brightness and beauty?

Themes

◆Body As Obstacleanthropology

The material body viewed as a prison, tomb, or source of error that hinders spiritual knowledge and return.

The text argues that appearance is despised by every one in pursuit of reality, implying the material form hinders true knowledge.

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◆Cosmic Dualismtheology

Ontological opposition between two primal principles (light/darkness, truth/lie, spirit/matter) as the fundamental structure of reality.

The passage distinguishes between good and bad pleasures, establishing an ontological opposition that defines moral value.

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◆Divine Hiddennesstheology

The supreme God's radical concealment beyond ordinary knowledge or perception; the Hidden Father.

The text emphasizes the darkness of ignorance surrounding the supreme principle of the good, which is not known by all.

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◆Evil As Privationtheology

Augustinian and Plotinian doctrine that evil has no positive being of its own but is a lack, distortion, or absence of the good — denying ontological dualism while preserving moral seriousness.

The passage states that bad pleasures exist alongside good ones, implying evil is a distortion or lack rather than a positive substance.

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◆Gnosis Direct Knowledgesoteriology

Salvation through direct experiential knowledge of the divine nature, not through faith, ritual, or moral works alone.

The passage centrally debates whether the supreme principle of the good is knowledge or pleasure, establishing direct knowledge as the core issue.

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◆Hidden Sayingssoteriology

Esoteric teachings reserved for those ready to receive them; outer meaning conceals an inner liberating truth.

The dialogue structure implies that true understanding requires deeper insight beyond surface-level opinions.

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◆Ladder Of Lovesoteriology

Diotima's staged ascent from love of beautiful bodies → beautiful souls → beautiful pursuits → beautiful knowledge → Beauty itself; the canonical scala amoris that grounds Plotinus's On the Beautiful and Bruno's Eroici Furori — distinct from generic spiritual_ascent in that eros is the specific motive force.

The text describes a progression from ignorance to knowledge as the soul's pursuit of truth and beauty.

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◆Paradox As Teachingethics

Using apparent contradiction, reversal, or riddle to destabilise ordinary understanding and induce insight.

The dialogue uses apparent contradictions (e.g., defining good as knowledge of good) to destabilize ordinary understanding.

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◆Pneumatic Electsoteriology

A spiritual elite who possess the divine spark and are predestined for salvation, contrasted with psychic (faithful) and hylic (material) persons.

The text distinguishes between best men entrusted with governance and those ignorant of the good.

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◆Renunciation Of Wealthethics

The spiritual danger of attachment to material possessions; wealth as a spiritual obstacle.

The passage critiques those who seek only the appearance of good rather than its reality.

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◆Return To Sourcesoteriology

The soul's journey back to its divine origin, reversing the fall into matter through stages of purification or illumination.

The soul's pursuit of the supreme principle implies a journey back to its divine origin.

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◆Self Knowledgesoteriology

The recognition of one's own true divine nature as the primary path to liberation; 'know thyself' as soteriology.

The passage identifies knowledge of the good as the highest form of knowing that guides human actions and state order.

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Related passages · 8 parallels

◆buddhism|Vajrakkhedika (Diamond Cutter)|Section 1q

“Free from self, free from being, free from life, free from personality, that highest perfect knowledge is always the same, and thus known with all good things. And why? Because, what were preached as good things, good things indeed, O Sub…”

Both passages explore the nature of ultimate reality and the limitations of conventional understanding. The Vajrakkhedika emphasizes the emptiness of all phenomena and the non-dual nature of reality, while the Platonic dialogue discusses the nature of the good and the limitations of human knowledge, both pointing towards a deeper, more profound understanding beyond ordinary perception.

◆christian_mysticism|Pseudo-Dionysius: The Divine Names|Chapter 4, Section 1

“Evil things are not entirety bad, but are bad only in some partial aspect. 360 περὶ τὴν ἄληστον του ἀγαθοῦ γνῶσιν. 361 Luke xii. 47 . 362 In the previous section D. has maintained that all people ultimately desire the Good. Hence it f…”

Both passages discuss the concept of the Good and the role of ignorance in moral behavior. They explore the idea that sin or wrongdoing arises from a failure to recognize or exercise knowledge of the Good, highlighting the complexity of understanding and pursuing the Good.

◆neoplatonism|Select Works of Plotinus|Select Works, Section 657 (part 2)

“We cannot be content with the conviction of their goodness on the ground of their origin in that realm: we do not deny that things deriving Thence are good, but our subject demands that we discover the mode by which they come to possess tha…”

Both passages explore the nature of goodness and the difficulty in understanding it. Plotinus emphasizes the need to understand the mode by which things derive goodness, while Plato (through Socrates) discusses the perplexities and difficulties in defining and understanding the good. Both texts reflect a deep philosophical inquiry into the concept of goodness.

◆neoplatonism|Select Works of Plotinus|Select Works, Section 658

“Section 19 19. Are we to rest all on pursuit and on the soul? Is it enough to put faith in the soul's choice and call that good which the soul pursues, never asking ourselves the motive of its choice? We marshal demonstration as to the natu…”

Both passages explore the nature of the good and the difficulties in defining it. They share a philosophical inquiry into the concept of goodness, questioning how it can be known and understood, and both engage in a dialogue about the nature of the good.

◆neoplatonism|Select Works of Plotinus|Select Works, Section 664

“Section 25 25. It is in view, probably, of this difficulty that Plato, in the Philebus, makes pleasure an element in the Term; the good is not defined as a simplex or set in Intellectual-Principle alone; while he rightly refrains from ident…”

Both passages discuss the nature of the good and the difficulties in defining it. They explore the relationship between the good, pleasure, and the highest principles, showing a conceptual parallel in their mystical traditions.

◆neoplatonism|Select Works of Plotinus|Select Works, Section 665

“Section 26 26. Any conscious being, if the good come to him, will know the good and affirm his possession of it. But what if one be deceived? In that case there must be some resemblance to account for the error: the good will be the origina…”

Both passages explore the nature of the good and the human pursuit of it. They discuss the inadequacy of pleasure as the ultimate good and the need for a deeper understanding of what constitutes true goodness.

◆neoplatonism|Select Works of Plotinus|Select Works, Section 667

“Section 28 28. Now to see what all this reasoning has established: Universally, what approaches as a good is a Form; Matter itself contains this good which is Form: are we to conclude that, if Matter had will, it would desire to be Form una…”

Both passages explore the nature of the good and its relationship to knowledge and reality. They discuss the pursuit of the good and the difficulties in defining it, showing a conceptual parallel in their philosophical inquiries.

◆neoplatonism|Select Works of Plotinus|Select Works, Section 668

“Section 29 29. Suppose, however, that pleasure did not result from the good but there were something preceding pleasure and accounting for it, would not this be a thing to be embraced? But when we say "to be embraced" we say "pleasure." But…”

Both passages explore the nature of the good and the difficulties in perceiving or defining it. They discuss the relationship between pleasure, knowledge, and the good, and the idea that the good is something beyond mere appearance or sensation.